The Approching Transition - Dalibor's Future

[Chek]

Hey everyone, tech slave Chek here with an announcement regarding the upcoming forced transition to Proboards v5.

The first option we have is to transition to v5 and try to deal with the aftermath. We’d loose a LOT of functionality, big and small, like the character listings in the miniprofiles. Lan and I, as your official technological ushers in this upcoming changeover, have done what we could on a beta version of the site… but it isn’t pretty, and it isn’t the Dalibor that we all know. But we CAN persevere and keep things working, even if it isn’t as good as it has been.

The second option, which I am actually a supporter of, is a migration. We move over to Jcink, which is actually very, very friendly towards roleplaying sites like ours, and we have already started testing as a viable alternative.

And it is VERY viable. Miniprofiles already work, the layout is a bit different but not bad, and it’s very easy to use. The only problem at the moment is that we have to make sure things like spoiler tags will still work, but it’s only a matter of time. Spoiler tags work, and I'm working on adding other things.

There would of course be some issues as we transition and iron out the kinks, but not nearly what v5 would land on us.

The issue would be migrating all our data, of course. It’s been suggested that we convert all our archived threads to an external database, but we would definitely be using the proboards Dali as an archive, at least for a little while. The rest of our pages and information, (ie the Library, records, character profiles), WOULD be moved.

That brings me to the next thing: no matter what, we need to put Dali into Maintenance Mode for a bit. If we transition to v5, I’m grimly looking at a week to two weeks before I’d be comfortable bringing things back up, and we’d likely still be running rough for a while afterwards.

If we transition to Jcink, we’d do things a little different. We’d open reg and let people build accounts on the partially finished site, and all new threads and applications after, say, December 18th for example, would be posted on the new site while we finish getting things functional and start migrating data and info. The transition would be smoother, though longer, and you’d have to bounce back and forth for info for a while. Any active threads that you have we’d ask you to repost on the new site by…oh, December 18th as well, and once everything was over, we’d freeze the site for a few to tweak your marks to reflect your actual totals, but after that, it would be opened back up. You’d just have to deal with us posting stuff all the time.

If we migrate, another option opens up to us: It would be easier for staff to rewrite out of date info pages as we move things over. And we could also build in pages that people really want to see as we move – like if we want a page on how money works, or a whole section of the Library devoted to crafts (which I would honestly probably end up writing while Cath laughs at me for bringing it upon myself) we can get things set up so it can go into place.

Okay. I’m here to answer questions, as are the mods. Ask away. State opinions. Give feedback. We don’t have much time to come to a decision.

PS: Nia knows what is up and has poked around the Jcink version; she's got a good layman's POV on how it looks and works at the moment.

[RavenSong]

If v5 bones everything so badly, I'd be for moving to Jcink.

[Kiran]

I'm only in to give an opinion at this point.

The layout, the set-up, the way things work, all are easy and useful and look nice. In the name of keeping things simpler for the techs and to allow the site to stay (relatively) open, I'm happy to support the migration over to Jcink. While the migration would be longer it sounds like overall it would be the more viable option in terms of making sure the site stays the way we love it.

[lee]

I am on board (get it?) with whatever would cause the least amount of head and heartache for the admins/mods, as y'all have to do the real work. I'm flexible.

...but then I started roleplaying back on like, expage, so anything really is a step up.

[Chimera]

I'm going to be flexible about this. I don't think there'll be that much of a difference with Jcink if it goes well, and if not it can always be changed. V5 seems a big headache for the admins and mods, and that won't be fun at all. So I'm happy to support moving to Jcink - it'll take a bit more time, but the site will be much closer to the Dali we all know and love.

Tl;dr I'm all for Jcink! :D Hell, I'd RP by email if it would be the best option for Dali by some ungodly reason.

Only thing is I'm doing a pillie Run this month but I can move that to a later time if needed~

[Digitalis]

The one time I used proboards five, I didn't mind it, but admittedly, I'm not very big on coding or anything. I'm really in favor of whatever turns out to be easiest/best for the mods and admin, so I'll be fine with whatever's decided, really.
(...I don't know if I even still qualify for doing Spook's run, considering how little I've posted lately. If so, though, I won't have the time to do it until later in December, after finals, anyway.)

[mopsy93]

Whatever works best in the long run for the admins/mods is okay with me.

[Rii]

I'd like to see jcink first. Mostly because I hate jumping blind, and like to have a chance to poke around and try to break things figure things out for myself instead of having someone say "nonono, it's good, trust me everything's easy and perfect". But that's just me, I'll follow the majority.

[Kiran]

Dec 4, 2013 19:13:59 GMT -5 Rii said:

I'd like to see jcink first. Mostly because I hate jumping blind, and like to have a chance to poke around and try to break things figure things out for myself instead of having someone say "nonono, it's good, trust me everything's easy and perfect". But that's just me, I'll follow the majority.

That's actually a good point. I wouldn't mind having a peek first. I know that V5 will be a hassle to deal with, but if we're going to make the jump then having a test board we can experiment with might be a solid idea.

[Chek]

Okay, so, I've got new registrations turned off, and it is VERY MUCH a work in progress, but you guys can peek: daliborweyr.b1.jcink.com/index.php

I've literally got two test threads up and you can see the miniprofile at work in my posts, but look all you'd like. I'll let you know when it's open for people to touch more interactively.

[Kiran]

Awesome, thanks Chek! So far I think it's looking pretty good. Even though it's still a bit raw, I think it would work out nicely.

[RavenSong]

I like the jcink board a lot. There are some differences to get used to (fonts, spacing of things) but it looks really great.

[Reky]

I'm familiar with jcink and it's pretty cool cuz you can do html in your posts. #2cents

[RavenSong]

Oh carp, html? Yeah, I'm definitely for it then!

[Nia]

Yes yes, you guys already know I'm onboard but the jcink site looks SO much better than what Dalibor would look like with v5, there's pretty much no comparison. Working with v5 would be so much effort and a VERY difficult change.

Honestly we really don't have much of a choice but to transfer.

[Raining]

I'm up for whatever is easiest for you admin/mods.
Jcink is completely new to me BUT I can adjust <3

haha from what I hear V5 isn't going to be as nice soo Jcink will be fine with me.

[Chek]

Annnnd here have some v5 to look at: v5test00000001.proboards.com/

There is not as much there, because by the time it was built this far we were sick of v5.

It took... a very long time to get it to look as nice as it does (thank you Lan for your suffering, we appreciate it), and I think what irritates me the most is that it had such PROMISE to be a nice upgrade, since a lot of the day to day admin stuff is sort of easy to work with... but there are so many downsides on the building and addon ends. You'll notice right away we're missing some sideboards, a money system, and a cbox.

Hahahaha, it's because it doesn't want to correctly format our cbox on the page! Delightful, huh? Who knows how long it would take to fix.

[RhiaBlack]

Dec 4, 2013 18:37:36 GMT -5 lee said:

I am on board (get it?) with whatever would case the least amount of head and heartache for the admins/mods, as y'all have to do the real work. I'm flexible.

Pretty much this. I'll save all my character profiles when I get on tomorrow, and copy all my past threads (Most of N'tharon's is archived on my plot page anyways, but I'd have to find Z'dyn's).

I would say not bother with even moving the archived stuff, just keep it here so that current users can come back and reference anything they need. That seems like a huge amount of work for you guys to do in moving all that stuff, and I don't even know who actually goes in and looks through any of that (though I do know it's useful to keep around just for the sake of having a record of past chars, etc).

I'm down for whatever is the easiest on you guys. I like Dali as it is now, but if it's going to be complicated and have less of everything, and this other site works pretty close to as it is now, it makes sense to just move over to the other site.

[Alec]

Looking at both side-by-side from looks alone it does look like jcink would be easier to transition over to. Because it doesn't honestly look that much different from the version we use currently, unless you want to get nit-picky over the smaller details. The bit linked here is the only example I've seen of v5, but it looks like it'll be completely different in many more ways. And of course, whatever is easier for all you mods and admins that run the site so amazingly. =3 After all, no need to kill yourselves trying to beat v5 into submission when there's another, easier and better option availible. So, I think migrating over to jcink will be the best option.

[Kila]

Jcink doesn't look bad. I bow to y'all's technical expertise.

[princesal]

I'm fine with whatever is easier. I had to wait until getting to work to say anything, to make sure that the OpenDNS web block we have wouldn't block either site. Neither of them are blocked, so I'm fine with either. I'm more interested in v5, but only from an 'ooooOooooOoooo' mindset, no real reason for wanting to use it above jcink. How do you pronounced that by the way? Jay-Sink? Jay-Cee-Ink?

[Zane]

Obviously whatever isn't going to create a head ache is superior, though I have to disagree on jcink being to the level of v5. I've seen what people can do with the v5 forums, and they're beyond amazing. The available features, and the set-up, is astounding. Jcink is pretty basic, but I can see that it'll keep the forum looking pretty much identical. Change isn't a bad thing, though. v5 would take Dalibor to a new level. Dun dun dunnnn... Otherwise-whatev's.

[Chek]

The thing about v5 is that you are either dependant on other people who know the new coding language for features and can develop them for you, or you learn it yourself. Your swamped tech team does not have the time between rl work and everything else to learn a completely new system of coding so we can get the features our members know and love up and running, or to fix compatibility issues when they come up. I was not joking when I said coding the test forum for v5 brought Lan to tears, and she’s like, an expert in coding.

In Jcink, it’s html. I am good at html. If a feature breaks, I am capable of going in and fixing it manually, because I can look at html and find what isn’t right.

I think the real problem with v5 is that for us casual coders who just want a working site with certain features? It’s too much. The admin panel has an insane amount of information on it, there are just so many things when all we need is a few simple, straightforward options. The thing is, we’re not at Dali for the website or how pretty it is (even though I think the jcink is plenty pretty). We’re here to play in the setting, on a board we can make work and do what simple things we want.

Sure, there will be a learning curve on the posting codes that are different, with it’s simple things like sticking a # before the color code when posting it, or using align instead or center or right, or adjusting to how sizes show up differently.

And I agree, change isn’t bad - we're changing no matter what! But change at the price of site functionality and my sanity is not a fair trade.

[Zane]

The coding is definitely complex, I've heard that time and time again. It would take a lot of time, something that Dalibor really doesn't have since the force-switch is this month. I didn't mean anything by my opinion, I've just seen sites coded for v5 that look really smooth. I know a lot of people claim that they're bulky and ugly-I used to be one of those people. But boards such as: Epoch for example, look supah fly.

Jcink seems like it'll be a great option for Dalibor, and the members, so I'm definitely on the wagon there. I enjoy that the site looks relatively the same, which is something I was, genuinely, sad about before. Forward ho on the Jcink ship! Let's sail this mo fo.

[Admin]

Your friendly neighborhood ex-admin Bre stopping in to mention some things. The first is that if Lan and Chek need it, I'm willing to help with the coding for either site. More manpower should help make the transition easier. I am a lot better at Jcink than v5 like Chek and Lan, but with a serious push, the correct templates and plugins needed to bring all of Dalibor's current functionality to v5 could be found or requested. The second is a few more important points I think everyone should simply be aware of in the research I did when v5 was been developed:

1. Jcink account setup will be much more similar to PB v4.5 than PB v5. With v5, Proboards is forcing all accounts registered with the same email to be linked via one master account. This significantly changes the interface and functionality.

2. I know we don't RP just for pretty posts, but since it has been brought up, PB v5 does have fancy post table creation capabilities (PB enhanced) same as Jcink (doHTML). However, Jcink's doHMTL is straight HTML. If you know it and CSS, you'll already have the skills. PB enhanced is similar but would require more getting used to even if you do have coding knowledge. Proboards never does anything straightforward.

3. Point two said, doHTML does pose a security risk the staff will need to discuss before agreeing to implement. I do not know if they plan on allowing it; that is for them to decide. PB enhanced poses less of a security risk. However (I'm saying that a lot), Jcink allows for the option of building custom bbcodes; I'm assuming that's most likely how spoiler tags were transferred. The staff can implement a lot of other fancier and handier things with them as well. It is possible to add custom bbcodes to v5, but it is a lot clunkier with more room for error.

I know that's a lot of rambling information and howevers, but I want everyone to be as informed as possible since I was sitting on v5 for forever (the interface is terrifying; it is doable, but it is terrifying and I spent a lot of time staring at it).