The Suggestion Box

[Admin]

Show told us what she wanted done with her characters or they were placed appropriately up for adoption, depending on the time to which you're referring. Additionally, characters that go unadopted for an extended period of time are generally transferred or killed. In fact, we have even killed abandoned characters in shorter periods of time; we try to do what works best. We have killed a number of adoptables over the years.

Efforts have been made to get in contact with Knight. She has been sent e-mails, IMs, and I tried her tumblr but she doesn't seem to be on the net. No one has to audition for Rayna if they do not want to, but Knight has been gone since July. It would be nice if she came back; I love Knight. However, we have no way of contacting her and she has left no notice.

I understand that many of you are upset that Knight is gone. I have received those feelings. However, that can't keep us from moving forward. If no one wishes to audition for Rayna, that is fine, but the staff can only put so much faith in the idea that she might come back. Her account has been left for her, but her characters are being placed up for adoption, killed, or transferred and, yes, at least some of them will be killed.

[wild]

I have managed to achieve contact with Knight via a mutual friend. On behalf of Knight any further auditions or character decisions should be put to a halt until she manages to come up with an exact explanation of what is to happen with them.

I'm sure she'll make an official appearance herself to back-up the latter.

EDIT: Knight says she's going to be too busy for Dalibor anymore, and therefore doesn't care what is done with her characters. If its best for the site, adopting Rayna out doesn't matter to her.

[RavenSong]

Nov 9, 2012 17:48:28 GMT -5 @wild said:

I have managed to achieve contact with Knight via a mutual friend. On behalf of Knight any further auditions or character decisions should be put to a halt until she manages to come up with an exact explanation of what is to happen with them.

I'm sure she'll make an official appearance herself to back-up the latter.

EDIT: Knight says she's going to be too busy for Dalibor anymore, and therefore doesn't care what is done with her characters. If its best for the site, adopting Rayna out doesn't matter to her.

To be frank, something like this needs to come directly from Knight, not via the telephone game with one person between you and her. Stuff can get muddled. I'm sure you're being truthful and all, but unless it's posted under her name, my opinion of the adoption (that it's BS and not what she wants) will not change.

[Azhdarchid]

RE: Activity Policy
(note: you can skip to the bottom if you really want to)

I don't have any ranking characters so I don't know if this policy is still being followed, but I don't -think- so and there are some specific changes I suggest be made.

Current requirements for the Wingleader and Alphahandler position should be dropped.

Alphahandler is a rank limited to one of two people and I think the only conceivable reason to transfer it elsewhere is if: 1) the Alphahandler is for some reason unable to teach a wherling class (I know Lyrnn taught one recently but it seems to me that should be a one-off thing, the Alpha should be taking care of it otherwise), 2) the Alphahandler is unable to complete their IC role in a major site plot, 3) the Alphahandler does not respond to repeated requests for some rank-specific interaction from other players.

Wingleaders should be submitting some kind of report or sign that they know who is on their wing, but Threadfall RPs seem to be very rare (I think I'm the only one who has initiated a couple in the past few months). I need to think on the details here further, or anyone else could offer a suggestion.

Weyrlingmasters must provide: a Hatching feast thread around the time the Hatching for their class ends, and a first lesson within 5-7 days of the Hatching (alternatively they can write an introductory lesson and then a proper lesson). The Weyrlingmaster should provide 2-3 additional lessons at times of their choosing through the course of Weyrlinghood, or a mix of lessons and Weyrling Wing runs in Threadfall (though that can only occur very late in Weyrlinghood).

If the Weyrlingmaster fails to provide the feast thread or the first lesson thread they should be immediately replaced and the player banned from having one of their characters act as WM for at least three more Weyrling classes. If they provide the feast thread and the first lesson thread, but fail to provide remaining lessons, other WMs should step in to provide those lessons and the player should be banned from acting as WM for at least two more Weyrling classes (from the time that they are found inactive).

ICly, WM replacement can be retroactive if the feast thread and first lesson thread are not provided (i.e. that character was never the WM at all), and illness/injury/etc can be used to excuse a WM that has already provided those introductory threads.

One other point, which is not so much a rule suggestion as a suggestion in general, is that WMs have a back-up plan when they use a lesson that involves other players and those players do not respond. WMs should not let threads linger for weeks while awaiting someone who agreed to post. The easiest method is to arrange beforehand that the player's character will be NPCed if they do not respond within a certain amount of time. The lesson is for the benefit of the Weyrlings, not the lesson-runners.

Should Weyrlings have negative consequences to not attending threads? I know this can go by lesson and WM (ex. in a test, people who respond will receive generally higher scores than people who do not, or are more likely to be considered for the Weyrling Wing Wingsecond position) and I think that is good. I think introducing some small chance (maybe 10-15%) for a Weyrling that does not reply to any lesson to fail Weyrlinghood is reasonable.

However, are there any IC incentives for Weyrlings that can be introduced to reward players that reply often and develop their characters more as opposed to punishing the ones that ignore Weyrling lessons?

This leadership recruitment thread should either be abandoned or used in conjunction with appropriate IC authorities reaching out to the right characters without an OOC go-between. Wingleaders should directly tap people in their wing they think would make good Wingseconds, and if they do not change their current Wingseconds then they should include a justification in their report. The Weyrwomen, possibly in consult with the Weyrleaders, should be tapping potential CMs and WMs. All tapping can be conducted via PM and initial requests from Wingleaders or Weyrwomen to the prospect WS/CM/WM should include the write-up of expectations.

*******************

tl;dr:
-Alphahandler should teach wherling lessons, perform their role in any site plots, and respond to requests for character interaction specific to their rank (ex. a priderunner concerned about her prideleader's behavior).
-Wingleaders should be able to tap people in their wings to become Wingseconds (through PM), and if they do not change their Wingseconds they must justify why the current WSes are the best possible choices during some kind of regular report (need more suggestions on the report structure and how often it should be submitted).
-Weyrwomen (who can consult the Weyrleaders if they wish) should be able to tap riders to become Weyrlingmasters/Candidatemasters (through PM).
-The leadership recruitment thread should at most be used simply in conjunction with the above recruitment strategies, and never as the defining source of leadership opportunities.
-Weyrlingmasters must be able to provide a hatching feast post at the end of a Hatching and the first lesson whenever the feast post runs out of steam (expected within 5-7 days). They should provide 2-3 additional lessons through the course of Weyrlinghood. WMs who cannot meet these activity requirements should be replaced and restrictions set on that player for future WMing.
-Weyrlings should have some kind of IC incentive to participate in lessons, and a small chance of flunking out (10-15%) if they do not respond to any of the WM's lessons.

[princesal]

I'd like to go on record saying that I agree with everything Azh has written. I think that if someone has a position of IC power, such as a WeyrlingMaster, or a WingLeader, that they should have ooc responsibilities, and should either have to adhere to them, or give an explanation for why they cannot. While someone may argue that those people earned those positions, I believe that they should continue to earn them.

I think that it should be on a character-by-character basis. If someone has two characters that are both weyrlingmasters, they should be expected to do their duties with both those characters. Meaning that they would have to do lessons with each of them, not just one. I think if this proves to difficult or too time consuming for someone, that they should be expected to drop the rank of one of those characters, of their choosing.

Positions such as Wingleader or Alphahandler should be expected to show those duties IC as well, instead of it just being a sidebar ranking. Especially when it comes to site-wide plots. Unless there is a reason those characters can not be posted in a site-wide plot thread, then they should be expected to post in them, especially if even to address their wing. The same goes for thread fall, as I would expect that many wingriders wouldn't go off flying without their Wingleader, I don't think it's a bad idea to make a thread fall post every so often (once per season thread is falling, once per IC turn) mandatory for those who have the rank of Wingleader.

While it'd be impossible to tell now, if these ranks were more accessible and more as a possible goal you can earn, I think there would be more striving for it. If it was possible to lose these ranks because people don't follow the guidelines, it might get those IC rank holders to be more active and accessible for threads and plots.

I also agree those who are weyrlings should have to post in the lesson threads, and if they don't, they have a chance of being held back from graduation. The percentage could start out small, and then if they keep on missing the lessons, or not posting, could gradually raise. Thus, if someone with a weyrling character doesn't post in any lesson, they don't graduate, simple as that. I think some lessons should have a higher demerit then others. If it's the 'first flight' lesson, and a weyrling doesn't show up for that, it should be regarded much more serious then if they don't post in a 'this is how you cut up meat' lesson plan. At the same time, for group lessons, there should be a demerit for those who stop posting in their group. I think that as it stands right now, this cannot be regulated, as the lesson plans seem to stay open forever. I may be the only one who feels this way, but I'm always a bit uncomfortable going to different lessons, or future threads, when past threads that could really affect a character, aren't finished. A solution could be of a ooc time limit for lessons. Whether that be an ooc month, or an ic turn.

I'm sure I've just restated everything Azh said more eloquently, but yeah, I agree with Azh.

[RavenSong]

Chek and I put together joint lessons for the Lifelovers and Sparkstarters, and those threads have all stalled out. Chek's most recent Weyrling lesson got a lot of interest, but only two pairings and since she's hiatused due to RL, it's stalled out as well. I can't recall any Weyrling lesson that has ever -completed-. Bre tried the incentive thing for the Snowstealers and it stalled out/failed as well.

I do not by any means agree to NPCing other people's characters. Unless you have express permission from the character's player it's godmoding, pure and simple, even if crap DOES come up IRL. Threads of all sorts stall out around here, not just plot ones. Additionally, there are times when people have -no bloody clue- what they need to post in a plot thread, and aren't clued in when they voice the confusion. Just posting this officially, I will be remarkably livid if anyone NPCs P'ryt or K'var without my express consent.

The suggestion regarding WMs/Weyrlings is, in my view, tantamount to punishing people for lack of ideas. There's only so many times you can post a "hey this is how you cut meat" thread or a "hey, this is how you make straps" thread before it gets repetitive and suckish. For people who play a candidate every Hatching or every few Hatchings, it's going to get boring.

I don't agree that people with IC power should have OOC anything unless they're staff. All Wingleaders posting a Threadfall RP once a month (which is once a season) is going to flood the board with Threadfall RPs and that would quickly get boring. I'll speak for myself on this one, as I know I'd be hesitant to join -yet another- Threadfall RP since I have characters in several different wings. I'd personally be in no fewer than three Threadfall RP thread -monthly- with that idea. I'd burn out and start resenting that requirement pretty quickly. I think people would get sick of seeing no fewer than 5 separate threads for Threadfall started every month. I think that idea could be better handled with 1-3 Threadfall posts per IC Turn, with whatever Wingleader that wants to do them doing them.

Regarding WLs, there are also instances in which the WL would be expected to hand out consequences which would be unlikely to be played out. One such thread has, not shockingly, stalled out thanks to RL circumstances of one of the individuals in the group.

Punishing people for not posting is likely to cause resentment. Crap happens. RL happens. Everyone here knows this. Literally 4/5 of my Weyrling class has had RL hit them like a Mack truck. Causing the 4/5 of the Sparkstarters to flunk Weyrlinghood and join the Rainracers because they have had medical/work crap happen is distinctly out of the question. I've already posted in the cbox with my plan to address that, so that my class does not get infracted if this actually does get implemented in any form. I'll be posting it officially soonish, and PMing all 5 players the link.

OOC issues need to be taken into consideration when you're looking at someone in any position who doesn't post frequently. I don't think punishing people by revoking IC status due to changing the requirements is the right idea. I think incentivizing what we currently have will be a better idea. Additionally, higher requirements to be a WL/WM/CM/Weyrleader may discourage people OOC from seeking the positions IC. This is a hobby, not a job. I feel adding work would be detrimental.

[Rii]

I disagree with the suggested changes to activity. Not to everything; I would like to continue to see candidatemasters, weyrlingmasters, weyrwomen/weyrleaders/wingleaders participate - and people are pretty good about doing so - but some of the suggestions seem a bit unreasonable to me.

1) Demanding a lesson within a week/two week period: Look, life happens. I'm all about seeing multiple lessons from weyrlingmasters in the duration of the class, but I don't like penalizing people for putting real life ahead of Dalibor. Seeing any leader-role play their leader-role in a thread a month/two threads in two months still seems most reasonable to me - again with the caveat that we should be understanding that sometimes events outside of Dalibor interfere.

2) Mandatory Weyrling participation/penalizing people for missing lessons: No. Mainly for the reasons stated above regarding leadership activity. I do think that rewarding people for participation is a great idea, via weyrling-wingsecond positions or placement with an upper/middle flight wing or what have you. But being held back might best be reserved for IC actions rather than OOC inaction. I do know of one site that does mandatory lessons (one lesson as candidate to stand a chance of Impressing, one as weyrling to be able to graduate), but they also have a much lower post-length requirement! ^.^;;

What I've generally seen there that people don't like being told that they have to post, especially as requirements go up (if you don't post in a single lesson you may not graduate is much easier to stomach than if you miss even one lesson you may not graduate, for example). It's a game, not a job.

I reiterate that it would be better to reward activity than penalize inactivity. I like seeing the weyrling/wherling class or wing/pride plot threads where people can throw up even short updates on what their characters are doing; obviously it's more in-depth to thread it, but if time just hasn't allowed, that extra chance both helps the leaders and may even spark more RP.

3) The leadership recruitment thread is still a good idea. It's a good place to indicate if you'd like responsibility, and who would suit, and why. If people choose to then take the information and thread with it, that's ideal - I love seeing that happen. But with no recruitment thread, it takes the initiative off of the players and stuffs it entirely on the staff - and accusations of favoritism may or may not abound. I'd like to see a bit of column a, a bit of column b: players apply through the recruitment thread, and then when people are chosen (options being the people who apply in said recruitment) they get either a thread with the person tapping them and/or a PM to make sure they know what's linked to that choice (for all I know, that happens now).

Those are my two or three cents on the matter, anyway! ^_^

[princesal]

Those are all really good points, Raven. But I think all of Azh's points are valid too. I think I'm going to stand on the ground that I want to see more IC stuff happen. While it may be difficult to come up with lesson plans, sometimes I feel like they do fall by the wayside, and it's a great place for Weyrlings to have character development without having to worry about doing something against the rules. It's difficult to find a happy medium with a large group of people. I'm sure there are some that wouldn't have a problem posting about meat cutting every time for their different candidate-turn-weyrling, because they have characters that would all react differently to having to do that.

Maybe a way to do that is by setting up some basic lessons that just get re-posted. That way it would be quick and easy to post, and since it'd be the same basic lesson plan every time. Oh oh! I have an idea. What if there were the basic lesson plans that just get posted, and people can participate in them through weyrlinghood (or do one post and be outie (that gets me a lot, I never can figure out if it's alright if I do one post and then scram, or if I should stay in there)), and other lesson plans that are more then that. For example, the awesome survival one that Raven and Chek made. That's a special personalized lesson plan, that I think all the weyrlings SHOULD be a part of, because it is personalized and time goes into it. That way the people who want more lesson plans can get them, and the people who feel that would be work, would be able to concentrate on the more personalized one.

While one a month might get excessive, maybe one every four months (that would be one turn IC), of one big thread. Wingriders can post there, and take the time to actually give their wings personal messages that way, that can create more plot. Say for example B'ob is a Wingrider, and he thinks that Ren (whose character profile says that they tend to take the easy way out) on Pink Simoneth has been slacking lately. They'd be able to post in this thread with a note to the player of Ren that they are keeping an eye on them, and that unless they improve they'll get a talking to. This could open up some plot ideas for the player of Ren. The same breath, B'ob could make note at T'om (who doesn't stand out very much, isn't good, isn't bad) of Blue Whynoth and say 'keep up the good work'. This could prompt the player of T'om to either get them to try harder to get advancement, or slack off because 'shards, they not being watched anyway'

It wouldn't be a requirement, just something extra to toss around. It would also allow people to be able to do a more cohesive update, every four months (one turn). I imagine that if B'ob was seeing Shannon of Cyan Mercudith taking on a lot of responsibility, that IC he might decide she'd be a better Wingsecond then the current one. As it stands right now, it seems actually a bit difficult to go up in rankings, if only because there doesn't seem to be any change in them.

I think I'd like to see a bit more IC fluidity to positions, especially with large weyrling classes growing up. Would it be bizarre to see a Wingleader coaching a newly graduated Wingrider because they see in them the potential to be a Wingsecond? Or is everything so in stone that that potential will be overlooked because no one will lose the rank unless it's punishment?

[shay]

I know I haven't been around that long, but I figured I'd put my two cents in anyway since I have a few ideas.

I know that, especially for newer members generally but also older ones, seeing a certain group of members always holding positions, but not always using them or the characters can get frustrating and downright disheartening. At times it can seem like there's no where for other members to go with their characters too because they aren't rotated frequently enough. Now, I'm not suggesting this is what is happening here, I haven't been around long enough to tell, but I'm just making a generalization about what I've seen in other weyrs in my time on pern forums.

That said, I think a good solution may be seen as follows.

Say that Member A has held a Wingleader position for a really long time, but lately they're not playing that character or any of their Wingleader duties except for every now and again. Now, this may because they are just loosing interest in the character/position, or maybe they're just really busy right now, but Member B sees this and they've really wanted to be a Wingleader. Now, my next paragraph is not a suggestion to punish Member A for not playing, but for how to spread the love a bit around.

If there is a system in place where various positions get rotated and/or renewed then it becomes easier for new and old members both to have fun with them. Let's say every turn to two turns IC weyrling/candidatemasters get switched out. Every two or three WeyrQueen *Weyrwoman* flights the Wingleaders/seconds/thirds get switched out, etc. It makes sure that everyone has a chance to play these characters, and it can be done sooner than the scheduled time if for whatever reason there is a large need for them.

That said, it can be useful to also have a designated event or even just a template or some sort of Thread dealing with the position to be completed in an Ooc month. For instance, Weyrlingmaster may need to meet with one or a group of his/her students not for a lesson but just a check-up with how they're doing. Wingleader may need to do something similar, or maybe a wingrider skipped a drill or two, etc. A certain number of failed to put up or really become active in these types of threads (and remember it's like one per month only) means that the admins need to talk to the member about if they're capable of taking on the responsibility at this moment in time.

As for Weyrling and Candidate lessons, I know they get boring too, I've had to do 'master things myself on sites before. What I tended to do though to have fun, and what I've seen being done are group activities or scheduled events. Say the wherlings and weyrlings get together in groups as a camping trip for the weekend to work on team work and survival skills. Maybe groups have different scenarios to work out, or Weyr leadership positions to pretend to be in for a week, etc. Candidates can have similar things as well, and even a how to ride runners because that'll help you maybe ride dragons lesson, or a look at various crafts lesson, etc.

Another interesting thing I have seen done for Weyrlings to keep them active in lessons and other aspects of rping, is that on a seasonal basis IC, the weyrlingmasters rpers look at their classes and take note of the things being done by each weyrling/dragonet pair in their threads both lesson and non-lesson. It can be tedious, but they can say how the dragonet and weyrling are growing as a pair, or physically in the dragon's case. They can give them a scenario of your dragonet has pulled a wing muscle, or maybe their rider has not noticed that their diet is changing and it's grown to be much thinner or has a bit of pudginess, maybe two of the weyrlings got into a fight, etc.

These are just things to keep it fun and interactive for the weyrlings instead of it just being show up or don't show up. There can be a detrimental side as in, skip too many lessons and maybe you're falling a bit behind and need extra lessons with the Weyrlingmaster or a Wingleader/second/third, volunteer. *could also count as one of their needed monthly threads as I suggested above*.

So, in short I think some things may use some changing, but not as a let's give punishment versus no punishment. I think it's much better to go the route of giving others a chance just for the sake of changing out people *bringing new ideas in in the process*, which helps with positions, but also places a small amount of IC actions=IC consequences as well, not in a slapping the hand way, but a fun and interactive means of rping.

[Azhdarchid]

Edit: Oh god ninja'd so hard. Sorry if I missed you.

Since Sal had some different suggestions from me I am only going to reply from my perspective. If your critique was directed at Sal's ideas instead, just wait for him to reply. I recommend quoting what you are replying to in further responses.

princesal[/u]:

SPOILER: Click to show

Jun 13, 2013 11:19:12 GMT -5 princesal said:

I'd like to go on record saying that I agree with everything Azh has written.
...
I'm sure I've just restated everything Azh said more eloquently, but yeah, I agree with Azh.

I think we are agreeing that something should be done, but the methods look a little different and may even be contradictory. xD

@raven[/u]:

SPOILER: Click to show

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

Chek and I put together joint lessons for the Lifelovers and Sparkstarters, and those threads have all stalled out. Chek's most recent Weyrling lesson got a lot of interest, but only two pairings and since she's hiatused due to RL, it's stalled out as well. I can't recall any Weyrling lesson that has ever -completed-.

I mentioned a couple things about those lessons to Chek that might improve similar lessons in the future, but I think it's not worth repeating here. The point that Weyrling lessons don't get a lot of participation is part of what my suggestions are intended to address.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

Bre tried the incentive thing for the Snowstealers and it stalled out/failed as well.

I don't know what you're referring to specifically, but at any rate I think incentives for particular lessons and Weyrlinghood as a whole should still be explored.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

I do not by any means agree to NPCing other people's characters. Unless you have express permission from the character's player it's godmoding, pure and simple, even if crap DOES come up IRL.

The only suggestion I made relating to NPCing a character was: "One other point, which is not so much a rule suggestion as a suggestion in general, is that WMs have a back-up plan when they use a lesson that involves other players and those players do not respond. WMs should not let threads linger for weeks while awaiting someone who agreed to post. The easiest method is to arrange beforehand that the player's character will be NPCed if they do not respond within a certain amount of time." This suggestion was that if you are a WM running a lesson where you need other players to provide some kind of character input for the lesson to continue, that you arrange beforehand (aka receive permission) to NPC that character if they don't respond after x amount of time. The player you plan the lesson with would be entirely complicit in this plan.

Note that the current activity policy includes the following: "Players who fail to show their ranked characters fulfilling their duties will have their characters lose whatever rank they hold. The staff reserves the right to state that a weyrlingmaster, candidatemaster, alphahandler, or wingleader has temporarily sustained a serious injury or become seriously ill as an explanation for why they are being replaced." When you agree to hold one of these positions you are also agreeing to this stipulation, which is why I would like to see a full write-up of requirements and consequences for taking on any particular leadership position delivered to anyone who is tapped for said position. On the current leadership recruitment thread, the document containing this text is linked.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

The suggestion regarding WMs/Weyrlings is, in my view, tantamount to punishing people for lack of ideas. There's only so many times you can post a "hey this is how you cut meat" thread or a "hey, this is how you make straps" thread before it gets repetitive and suckish. For people who play a candidate every Hatching or every few Hatchings, it's going to get boring.

I have seen a lot of imaginative lessons at every stage of Weyrlinghood. We also now have a ruleset and a "day in the life" library entry for Weyrlings that I think will do a lot to assist WMs in conceiving of lessons. Since you're lumping the WM/Weyrling requirements together I'm not sure what you specifically object to.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

I don't agree that people with IC power should have OOC anything unless they're staff.

I did not make this suggestion.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

All Wingleaders posting a Threadfall RP once a month (which is once a season) is going to flood the board with Threadfall RPs and that would quickly get boring.

I did not make this suggestion and in fact suggested to turn away from this model.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

Regarding WLs, there are also instances in which the WL would be expected to hand out consequences which would be unlikely to be played out. One such thread has, not shockingly, stalled out thanks to RL circumstances of one of the individuals in the group.

Not sure what this is referring to/what this means so I can't comment.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

Punishing people for not posting is likely to cause resentment. Crap happens. RL happens. Everyone here knows this. Literally 4/5 of my Weyrling class has had RL hit them like a Mack truck. Causing the 4/5 of the Sparkstarters to flunk Weyrlinghood and join the Rainracers because they have had medical/work crap happen is distinctly out of the question. I've already posted in the cbox with my plan to address that, so that my class does not get infracted if this actually does get implemented in any form. I'll be posting it officially soonish, and PMing all 5 players the link.

First of all: any rule changes made here would (or should) apply only to future classes. Secondly, while I understand that RL happens, it should not be happening for all of Weyrlinghood (a period of 6-8 months OOC). I really believe people should be able to respond to at least one of the WM's threads. If they fail to do so (and assuming the WM has provided enough lessons/opportunities), I think a 10-15% chance of failing to graduate simply gives that player another shot at Weyrlinghood RP in general, and a new batch of characters to interact with. In Q'sis' case, when he flunked he was put back to the next oldest class, and was only there another season or two.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

OOC issues need to be taken into consideration when you're looking at someone in any position who doesn't post frequently. I don't think punishing people by revoking IC status due to changing the requirements is the right idea.

The requirements I suggested for Wingleaders are actually easier to accomplish than what is described in the current activity policy. The requirements for a WM are stricter, but that is because an entire class of Weyrlings is dependent on them for that 6-8 month OOC period.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

I think incentivizing what we currently have will be a better idea.

The incentive to be a Wingleader is currently, as far as I can tell, that you can boss around the members of your wing and participate in whatever political RPs that emerge. The incentive to be a WM is similar, but you also get to interact with >>>>beebs!<<<< and new players, while CMs get to help introduce players to the game. I don't know what other incentives might work on top of that.

Jun 13, 2013 13:33:53 GMT -5 RavenSong said:

Additionally, higher requirements to be a WL/WM/CM/Weyrleader may discourage people OOC from seeking the positions IC. This is a hobby, not a job. I feel adding work would be detrimental.

As I stated above, my theoretical requirement for Wingleaders is lower than what it is in the current (but likely unenforced) activity policy. The WM requirement is higher for the reasons stated a few quotes up. I did not discuss CMs or Weyrleaders, and as Weyrleaders are chosen by the Weyrwomen they can't really be made to follow any particular standard.

Rii[/u]:

SPOILER: Click to show

Jun 13, 2013 13:42:19 GMT -5 Rii said:

1) Demanding a lesson within a week/two week period: Look, life happens. I'm all about seeing multiple lessons from weyrlingmasters in the duration of the class, but I don't like penalizing people for putting real life ahead of Dalibor.

I would like to see WMs chosen well before the Hatching, which means they would be aware of exactly when the Hatching is happening and of when they will need their lessons ready. If they anticipate they're going to have RL issues during that period they can prewrite the lesson and choose someone to make any modifications necessary due to Hatching events, or even coordinate directly with the Hatching-runner (and spoil themselves :P) so that they have everything ready to go. They can also ask around to see if anyone is willing to fill in for them on either thread, or alternately just hold off on WMing until the next class. At any rate, it is not as if the lesson time would be a sudden surprise. I know WMs have been selected or notified only the day that the Hatching started before, and I would like that to change.

Jun 13, 2013 13:42:19 GMT -5 Rii said:

2) Mandatory Weyrling participation/penalizing people for missing lessons: No. Mainly for the reasons stated above regarding leadership activity. I do think that rewarding people for participation is a great idea, via weyrling-wingsecond positions or placement with an upper/middle flight wing or what have you. But being held back might best be reserved for IC actions rather than OOC inaction. I do know of one site that does mandatory lessons (one lesson as candidate to stand a chance of Impressing, one as weyrling to be able to graduate), but they also have a much lower post-length requirement! ^.^;;

As noted in earlier replies, the chance of failing to graduate is only 10-15% and applies only if the Weyrling has failed to respond to ANY of the WM's lessons. Upper/Middle Flight should not be considered an incentive/a better place to be. Many hard-working riders, including all the Journeyman/Master Healers, ride in Lower Flight. Weyrling Wingsecond positions are reasonable incentive if you're in to politics, but it is a temporary position and at present the Weyrling Wings have never been RPed. It's difficult to pick out a good incentive and I am still thinking it over myself.

Jun 13, 2013 13:42:19 GMT -5 Rii said:

3) But with no recruitment thread, it takes the initiative off of the players and stuffs it entirely on the staff - and accusations of favoritism may or may not abound.

It actually would not, as the only staff guaranteed to be involved in choosing WM/CM positions would be Avalle (due to playing a Weyrwoman), and Reky (due to playing the Alphahandler) if Wherlingmasters are retained as a concept. The staff already chooses Wingleaders, but Wingleaders choose Wingseconds independently (some of the staff are also Wingleaders but this can always change, whereas WWs and AH are concrete positions). The recruitment thread currently places all those leadership decisions with the exception of Wingseconds in the hands of the staff only.

Jun 13, 2013 13:42:19 GMT -5 Rii said:

I'd like to see a bit of column a, a bit of column b: players apply through the recruitment thread, and then when people are chosen (options being the people who apply in said recruitment) they get either a thread with the person tapping them and/or a PM to make sure they know what's linked to that choice (for all I know, that happens now).

Part of the reason I am interested in tapping vs. making people apply via the recruitment thread is that it was recently brought to my attention that some people do not like addressing the staff head-on. Another point is that Wingsecond tapping gives Wingleaders something to do and would be part of the new Wingleader reqs, while having the Weyrwomen tap the CMs/WMs (along with potential Weyrleader consult if the Weyrwoman want it) fosters cohesiveness between these groups and also gives them more stuff to do, and potentially roleplay if they want to.

[RavenSong]

Jun 13, 2013 14:35:32 GMT -5 @shay said:

If there is a system in place where various positions get rotated and/or renewed then it becomes easier for new and old members both to have fun with them. Let's say every turn to two turns IC weyrling/candidatemasters get switched out. Every two or three WeyrQueen *Weyrwoman* flights the Wingleaders/seconds/thirds get switched out, etc. It makes sure that everyone has a chance to play these characters, and it can be done sooner than the scheduled time if for whatever reason there is a large need for them.

Something similar to this happens already. P'ryt -JUST- obtained the most junior Weyrleader position, which was held prior by L'am of Bronze Lebeth, whose player left at the most recent activity check. O'sho of Daidoroth has been Sr Weyrleader as long as he has because A) the site was created by Kila and Bre and B) Daidoroth was Kalith's weyrmate, and their riders are weyrmates. I'm not sure what the future holds for O'sho and Daidoroth. Z'an is a new Junior, as well. Avalle just became Sr. Weyrwoman. The upper echelons of power -do- change. Wingseconds have been tapped directly from Weyrlinghood. Z'dyn of Iron Baihujinth was one of them.

Additionally, OOC interest in position -needs- to be expressed, or accusations of favoritism can and probably will abound. The admin team has been accused of favoritism quite a few times based on which character got what dragon in -one hatching-, or because x character got a Pink. They really don't need anything else that would have such false accusations lobbed their way. Not much interest has been expressed. And when it -is- expressed, it happens as soon as feasible.

@azh: I responded to both your and Sal's posts in mine. If you didn't make the suggestion, it doesn't need to be addressed by you.

[kireon]

I would like to see a full write-up of requirements and consequences for taking on any particular leadership position delivered to anyone who is tapped for said position.

I'd actually like this, as someone who has a Candidatemaster/Wingsecond/Pridesecond. I can Google-fu like nobody's business, but I'd also like some of our more experienced Pern players to maybe do an outline as to the responsibilities/'Day in the Life of' kinds of things for titled positions. That way those who are/might be interested have a guideline to go by and can see what will be required of them. (I'm also a sucker for somewhat realistic job tasks, etc, so there's also that. I currently kinda fail at Candimastering in comparison to Lan and Cath, but would definitely want to do more to take the load off of them when need be/because it would be fun to play. Yuri is just the Guidance Counselor while Nimara and Jazz are the Principal and Vice-Principal of Candi-School okay shhh.

[Cathaline]

The Alphahandler is no longer necessarily the wherlingmaster. Lyrnn will remain wherlingmaster for most classes; Audren does take some small classes when she can, but as she is additionally a prideleader, she ended up with far too many responsibilities for one person.

Would it be bizarre to see a Wingleader coaching a newly graduated Wingrider because they see in them the potential to be a Wingsecond?

This is actually already happening with Z'an and Sian. Will she actually become wingsecond someday? I have no idea. That's not set in stone, but neither is it impossible that she ever would be.

As it stands right now, it seems actually a bit difficult to go up in rankings, if only because there doesn't seem to be any change in them.

There is change in positions, but it doesn't happen every month or two. We will be seeking another Candidatemaster at some point in the future; this is set in stone, though I do not know when it will be. A new Weyrlingmaster will likely be needed for Wenth's clutch. C'tan and Durian are both fairly recent wingsecond recruits; just last month, Calmera became a wingsecond for Horizon.

If there is a system in place where various positions get rotated and/or renewed then it becomes easier for new and old members both to have fun with them.

While I understand the OOC interest in this, ICly it makes no sense. Change is bad during a time of war (which is what fighting Threadfall is). A Weyr is a military establishment. You don't swap out your generals and colonels to give everybody a chance to have fun. As it is, we rotate our positions relatively often, as I stated above, as needed. People get opportunities.

The leadership recruitment thread will remain the source of the majority of our IC leaders, simply because we wish to spread the love. Nobody will ever have two weyrlingmasters in rotation at the same time, or two Candidatemasters, or two wingleaders. It is possible to have more than one wingsecond, but never more than two. There are times when there is effectively no shortlist from that thread because of certain requirements, and then we go and tap people who seem like they'd be good candidates. But I strongly prefer for people to post in that thread to express their interest, because frankly, people who take the time to say "I'd be interested in this" are probably the people who are going to be most jazzed and happy to get it.

In general our activity policy is fluid, and needs to be rewritten to reflect that. However, it was created for and exists for a purpose: we previously had many wingleaders/weyrlingmasters/etc. who didn't do anything with the position, were barely active on the site at all, and were preventing active players from holding those slots OR interacting with those important characters. The activity policy essentially says "you're not entitled to have this forever because we gave it to you once."

Weyrlings have NO activity requirement and never will. Regular characters have never had any requirement. We have characters on the site who haven't been played in over a year, but neither they nor their character will face consequences for it. It is absolutely godmodding to say "your character sucked so badly they had to be held back" (which is an EXTREMELY serious punishment) when the character, literally, didn't do anything wrong. It is decidedly not unheard of for people to leave the site for months at a time due to illness, RL problems, etc. Six months is a long time, but it is certainly possible.

[princesal]

I suggest that the idea of the IC ranks and what not and any possible consequences really only apply to people who disappear off the face of Pern without a bye. It's not really fair to have people that are completely swamped with real life, have to worry about losing their rank at the same time. If someone lets the board know that they are going to be busy with real life, we should respect that... I think a long time motto I'm always seeing, in the cbox, is that 'Real Life is more important than Role Playing', and I think that should be law. That said, I think if someone is going to suddenly poof, they should at least try to post a quick little LoA, even if it's asking someone else to do so, and they come in and say 'Yes to all this', and get back to whatever they are going through and working on in real life.

[Rappu]

RL happens and that IMO the most important thing to keep in mind. That said, there's a lot of potential for mini-plots and stuff with IC rank.

Could there be like... A few big threads for lessons and for threadfall? Where people could post random snippets of lessons or threadfighting, without having to make new threads for all the little things?

[Maggie]

As it stands right now, it seems actually a bit difficult to go up in rankings, if only because there doesn't seem to be any change in them.

Not really. I remember noticing a few months ago that Genner's title had changed and he was suddenly pridesecond. It makes IC sense, since he's older and experienced and OCC sense since the previous pridesecond had gone inactive. This happened within a month or so of my arrival on the site, so the whole "only a select few get the choice IC positions" doesn't really hold.

I would like to point out that long-term LOAs do definitely happen. I'm leaving for 9 weeks with no Internet access. Due to preparations and, at the end of tour, wrap-up, I may be functionally inactive for up to 3 months. A 6 month LOA isn't common, but can definitely happen, so why punish someone for it?